Flag of Mexico Flown Illegally Over Reno Business
- Thread starter Tom
- Start date
![[:D]](/images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin [:D]")
Bravo!! ![[clap]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_clap.gif "Clap [clap]")
This got me wondering what law and penalties could be raised against the jerk who raised the flags this way. Surprise!! This is NOT against the law as stated in the video, and technically the Vet could be charged under Nevada law! Nevada law addresses vandalism & desecration, but not position of the flag!!!!!!
Note that I'm not criticizing what the Vet did, I totally agree with him, but it appears the jerk flying the flag did not break any laws.
US Flag Code:
"No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the
right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services
conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown
above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy."
However it also states:
"The Code is designed for the use of such civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments of the federal government. Thus, the Flag Code does not prescribe any penalties for non-compliance nor does it include enforcement provisions; rather the Code functions simply as a guide to be voluntarily followed by civilians and civilian groups."
Nevada Law provides a penalty for the Vet!!!!:
DESECRATION OF FLAGS
NRS 201.290 Penalty; exception.
1. Any person who, in any manner, for exhibition or display, puts or causes to be placed any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, character, marks or notice, or sets or places any goods, wares and merchandise whatever upon any flag or ensign of the United States, or state flag of this State, or ensign, evidently purporting to be either of the flags or ensign, or who in any manner appends, annexes, or affixes to any such flag or ensign any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, marks, notice or token whatever, or who displays or exhibits or causes to be displayed or exhibited any flag or ensign, evidently purporting to be either of the flags, upon which shall in any manner be put, attached, annexed or affixed any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, marks, notice or token whatever, or who publicly or willfully mutilates, tramples upon, or who tears down or willfully and maliciously removes while owned by others, or defames, slanders, or speaks evilly or in a contemptuous manner of or otherwise defaces or defiles any of the flags, or ensign, which are public or private property, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor.
2. This section shall not apply to flags or ensigns the property of or used in the service of the United States or of this State, upon which inscriptions, names of actions, words, marks or symbols are placed pursuant to law or authorized regulations.
[1911 C&P § 338; A 1919, 438; 1919 RL § 6603; NCL § 10286]
This got me wondering what law and penalties could be raised against the jerk who raised the flags this way. Surprise!! This is NOT against the law as stated in the video, and technically the Vet could be charged under Nevada law! Nevada law addresses vandalism & desecration, but not position of the flag!!!!!!
Note that I'm not criticizing what the Vet did, I totally agree with him, but it appears the jerk flying the flag did not break any laws.
US Flag Code:
"No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the
right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services
conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown
above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy."
However it also states:
"The Code is designed for the use of such civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments of the federal government. Thus, the Flag Code does not prescribe any penalties for non-compliance nor does it include enforcement provisions; rather the Code functions simply as a guide to be voluntarily followed by civilians and civilian groups."
Nevada Law provides a penalty for the Vet!!!!:
DESECRATION OF FLAGS
NRS 201.290 Penalty; exception.
1. Any person who, in any manner, for exhibition or display, puts or causes to be placed any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, character, marks or notice, or sets or places any goods, wares and merchandise whatever upon any flag or ensign of the United States, or state flag of this State, or ensign, evidently purporting to be either of the flags or ensign, or who in any manner appends, annexes, or affixes to any such flag or ensign any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, marks, notice or token whatever, or who displays or exhibits or causes to be displayed or exhibited any flag or ensign, evidently purporting to be either of the flags, upon which shall in any manner be put, attached, annexed or affixed any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, marks, notice or token whatever, or who publicly or willfully mutilates, tramples upon, or who tears down or willfully and maliciously removes while owned by others, or defames, slanders, or speaks evilly or in a contemptuous manner of or otherwise defaces or defiles any of the flags, or ensign, which are public or private property, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor.
2. This section shall not apply to flags or ensigns the property of or used in the service of the United States or of this State, upon which inscriptions, names of actions, words, marks or symbols are placed pursuant to law or authorized regulations.
[1911 C&P § 338; A 1919, 438; 1919 RL § 6603; NCL § 10286]
Yes but it only applies to, "...whatever upon any flag or ensign of the United States, or state flag of this State, or ensign,..." and not to the Mexico flag, and regarding the falg of Mexico I would argue that he did not "tear down" or "maliciously remove", the flag. (and I agree Kirby, I support the vet 100% and my first concern wsa he was going to get arrested!) Notice how the guys standing outside had nothing to say!
Not to step on you at all Kirby, but, you are right about what you said in regard to 4 U.S.C section 7(c) and interpretation (case law) on that statute, but personally, if I wanted to attack the store owner, I would use 4 U.S.C. section 7(g). Which states, "When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace." 4 U.S.C. section 7(g) (1998).
That proprietor has violated what I am assuming is an international law forbidding two countries flags to be flown on the same pole in times of peace. We are currently not at war with Mexico...so, I would venture to guess that this law would apply. And to see what the penalty s, if there is one, one would need to locate the treaty that makes this illegal. Since there is a reference to it in the US code, I can only assume that there is enabling legislation somewhere in the code, but I don't have the time to get that far into the research. But it is sufficient to show that the proprietor has broken a law-- it may be an international law, and so long as the Senate has ratified it by a 2/3s majority, it's techinically the law in the U.S.
For sake of completeness, here is the 4 USC 7(c) in its entirety:
"No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations." 4 U.S.C. section 7(c) (1998).
That proprietor has violated what I am assuming is an international law forbidding two countries flags to be flown on the same pole in times of peace. We are currently not at war with Mexico...so, I would venture to guess that this law would apply. And to see what the penalty s, if there is one, one would need to locate the treaty that makes this illegal. Since there is a reference to it in the US code, I can only assume that there is enabling legislation somewhere in the code, but I don't have the time to get that far into the research. But it is sufficient to show that the proprietor has broken a law-- it may be an international law, and so long as the Senate has ratified it by a 2/3s majority, it's techinically the law in the U.S.
For sake of completeness, here is the 4 USC 7(c) in its entirety:
"No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations." 4 U.S.C. section 7(c) (1998).
I believe if your country were being invaded with MILLIONS of illegals who are getting free medical assistance, education at taxpayers expense, commiting cimes, including murder of police officers and rapes of children you would be upset as well, not to mention if I came and put my American flag higher on the same pole as your NZ. flag. Your sarcastic comment, "Oh so prescious" is uncalled for and insulting. ![[:(!]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_angry.gif "Angry [:(!]")
What would NZ do if I snuck into your country?
What would NZ do if I snuck into your country?
I don't want you lot to choke on your fruit loops, but I'm not convinced.
BTW, More NZ'ers have died as a proportion to population fighting wars alongside america than americans (based on my quick research - unverified. WWII we had more than twice as many deaths as percentage of population than US - 0.67% NZ compared with 0.32% US).
We have more immigrants (edited as could not find figures for just illegals in NZ) as a proportion of population than america both living here as "free" citizens and in our jails (mostly from asia and/or the pacific islands). We have 19.5% of the population in this category, which is high on the list out of all OECD countries. This is compared to around 12% in the US. (still quite high).
I have no problem with you moving here, seting up shop and flying an american flag - be proud of your country. if you also choose to show allegiance to my country while you are hare and fly the nz flag below - go right ahead Trust me NOONE would care - its your perogative.
You are being precious and if you're insulted, I'm sorry as that wasn't my intention, but thats just too bad.
BTW, More NZ'ers have died as a proportion to population fighting wars alongside america than americans (based on my quick research - unverified. WWII we had more than twice as many deaths as percentage of population than US - 0.67% NZ compared with 0.32% US).
We have more immigrants (edited as could not find figures for just illegals in NZ) as a proportion of population than america both living here as "free" citizens and in our jails (mostly from asia and/or the pacific islands). We have 19.5% of the population in this category, which is high on the list out of all OECD countries. This is compared to around 12% in the US. (still quite high).
I have no problem with you moving here, seting up shop and flying an american flag - be proud of your country. if you also choose to show allegiance to my country while you are hare and fly the nz flag below - go right ahead Trust me NOONE would care - its your perogative.
You are being precious and if you're insulted, I'm sorry as that wasn't my intention, but thats just too bad.
you sort of have to live here to understand, or in any country that actually has a population issue. comparative populations don't so much matter as absolute numbers. your 1% and our 1% are not alike. we also have laws and a process to change the laws if you think they are unjust. and like someone mentioned, a lot of people have their necks on the line to support that flag and the freedoms that come with it, so it's only respect that we play by certain rules. we aren't being precious, be happy your country hasn't had to deal with this yet, and once it does... well, then we'll see how precious us americans look.
haha look all this lively political discussion on a bmw forum of all places
haha look all this lively political discussion on a bmw forum of all places
I am not sure what wars NZ'ers have fought in on behalf of America? I thought they fought in Vietnam on behalf of Vietnam, and Korea on behalf of Korea? Regardless in Korea between 1950 and 1957 41 NZ'ers were killed, and in Vietnam 37, one in Kuwait on behalf of Kuwait, and one in the Falklands. Source: New Zealand Rolls of Honour The US had 33,741 deaths battlefield deaths in Korea, 47,424 in Vietnam that is a big difference. Get your facts straight before you try and demean our service men and women.
I also doubt your illegal or legal immigration problems are even close to the US, we have anywhere from 7 -20 million according to the Christian Science Monitor
Regarding the flag, I would not fly my flag in your country as a sign of respect. Notice that for example at the Olympics we have lots of nations waving their respective flags in support of their country and teams, but none raise theirs on a pole directly above ours within our own nation.
I also doubt your illegal or legal immigration problems are even close to the US, we have anywhere from 7 -20 million according to the Christian Science Monitor
Regarding the flag, I would not fly my flag in your country as a sign of respect. Notice that for example at the Olympics we have lots of nations waving their respective flags in support of their country and teams, but none raise theirs on a pole directly above ours within our own nation.
On one hand I still disagree, however, I guess we put less national pride behind our flag per se than other national icons or representation. And so on that basis I'm probably not being entirely fair as I'm probably comparing apples with pears.
That said however, NZers tend to have a better sense of humour than americans in regard to jibes that bruise national pride. We tend to laugh at ourselves more, and "get over" insults by others outside of the country more easily. In essence that is what i'm getting at.
If someone took one of our national icons and rubbished/trashed/disrespected it in this country I would have to take exception to it. So I guess I am bowing out at this juncture.
Nice debate though.
BTW, Big daddy has figured it out I'm pretty sure, but maybe some of the rest of you have too, I like to stir the pot (so to speak) and get peoples blood flowing. I try to moderate myself to stay on the right side of the line of good/bad taste, but please try not to be personally offended if you find my comments a little abrasive, it is only the internet after all. I try to make up for it by being useful in answering as many e30 related queries as my expertise allows on the board
.
Cheers from the cheeky kiwi.
That said however, NZers tend to have a better sense of humour than americans in regard to jibes that bruise national pride. We tend to laugh at ourselves more, and "get over" insults by others outside of the country more easily. In essence that is what i'm getting at.
If someone took one of our national icons and rubbished/trashed/disrespected it in this country I would have to take exception to it. So I guess I am bowing out at this juncture.
Nice debate though.
BTW, Big daddy has figured it out I'm pretty sure, but maybe some of the rest of you have too, I like to stir the pot (so to speak) and get peoples blood flowing. I try to moderate myself to stay on the right side of the line of good/bad taste, but please try not to be personally offended if you find my comments a little abrasive, it is only the internet after all. I try to make up for it by being useful in answering as many e30 related queries as my expertise allows on the board
.Cheers from the cheeky kiwi.
Flag... Immigration...
Here is a post I put on another board which summarize my take on the subject.
Thic country, which I love, is going down, for lack of enough poeple to stand for our Fathers value, INCLUDING OUR FLAG.
I am originally from Belgium, more precisely, BASTOGNE... any one has heard of the 101 st airborne? They are still regarded as heros where I came from...
It is not only about the flag, it is about coming here, legally and obey by the rules of the land,.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am getting pissed, as I am writing!![[wave]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_wave.gif "Wave [wave]")
I am sick and tired to hear about amnesty for all violators... Yes, I am a f... foreigner, yes, I came legally in the US in 1991, paid taxes ever since, and love this country. I still do not vote - (I have a green card and will become citizen when my mother - who lives abroad with the rest of my family- passes away) and consider myself as a guest, so I will not go into Politics.
I just want to say that what made the USA a great country is called the MELTING POT...
HELLO, melting, which means BECOME ONE from MANY...
I speak French, but would be pissed if one idiot wanted to start to say the pledge of allegiance in French because one A.... did not try to learn English.
I had to go through all kinds of flags, b..ls..t and I was coming here legally!!!!
Why can't it be the way for everyone esle - To all F... illegal immigrants, you want equal opportunity, start learning english and fill out the paperwork to become legal. After that, pay all the back taxes, then, you'll have the right to come demonstrate and use Freedom Speach on our beautiful U S of A.
If not, F... Y...
Pissed off in LA
I believe if your country were being invaded with MILLIONS of illegals who are getting free medical assistance, education at taxpayers expense, commiting cimes, including murder of police officers and rapes of children you would be upset as well, not to mention if I came and put my American flag higher on the same pole as your NZ. flag. Your sarcastic comment, "Oh so prescious" is uncalled for and insulting.
What would NZ do if I snuck into your country?
What would NZ do if I snuck into your country?
Thic country, which I love, is going down, for lack of enough poeple to stand for our Fathers value, INCLUDING OUR FLAG.
I am originally from Belgium, more precisely, BASTOGNE... any one has heard of the 101 st airborne? They are still regarded as heros where I came from...
It is not only about the flag, it is about coming here, legally and obey by the rules of the land,.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am getting pissed, as I am writing!
I am sick and tired to hear about amnesty for all violators... Yes, I am a f... foreigner, yes, I came legally in the US in 1991, paid taxes ever since, and love this country. I still do not vote - (I have a green card and will become citizen when my mother - who lives abroad with the rest of my family- passes away) and consider myself as a guest, so I will not go into Politics.
I just want to say that what made the USA a great country is called the MELTING POT...
HELLO, melting, which means BECOME ONE from MANY...
I speak French, but would be pissed if one idiot wanted to start to say the pledge of allegiance in French because one A.... did not try to learn English.
I had to go through all kinds of flags, b..ls..t and I was coming here legally!!!!
Why can't it be the way for everyone esle - To all F... illegal immigrants, you want equal opportunity, start learning english and fill out the paperwork to become legal. After that, pay all the back taxes, then, you'll have the right to come demonstrate and use Freedom Speach on our beautiful U S of A.
If not, F... Y...
Pissed off in LA
On one hand I still disagree, however, I guess we put less national pride behind our flag per se than other national icons or representation. And so on that basis I'm probably not being entirely fair as I'm probably comparing apples with pears.
That said however, NZers tend to have a better sense of humour than americans in regard to jibes that bruise national pride. We tend to laugh at ourselves more, and "get over" insults by others outside of the country more easily. In essence that is what i'm getting at.
If someone took one of our national icons and rubbished/trashed/disrespected it in this country I would have to take exception to it. So I guess I am bowing out at this juncture.
Nice debate though.
BTW, Big daddy has figured it out I'm pretty sure, but maybe some of the rest of you have too, I like to stir the pot (so to speak) and get peoples blood flowing. I try to moderate myself to stay on the right side of the line of good/bad taste, but please try not to be personally offended if you find my comments a little abrasive, it is only the internet after all. I try to make up for it by being useful in answering as many e30 related queries as my expertise allows on the board.
Cheers from the cheeky kiwi.
That said however, NZers tend to have a better sense of humour than americans in regard to jibes that bruise national pride. We tend to laugh at ourselves more, and "get over" insults by others outside of the country more easily. In essence that is what i'm getting at.
If someone took one of our national icons and rubbished/trashed/disrespected it in this country I would have to take exception to it. So I guess I am bowing out at this juncture.
Nice debate though.
BTW, Big daddy has figured it out I'm pretty sure, but maybe some of the rest of you have too, I like to stir the pot (so to speak) and get peoples blood flowing. I try to moderate myself to stay on the right side of the line of good/bad taste, but please try not to be personally offended if you find my comments a little abrasive, it is only the internet after all. I try to make up for it by being useful in answering as many e30 related queries as my expertise allows on the board
.Cheers from the cheeky kiwi.
I am from Reno, so I give mad Kudos to this vet. Hats off to ya brother.
And one other detail... think of the actual history of the flag, not its representations. Think about the stories/facts we learned in middle school about how George Washington wanted a big-honking flag to show this country's unity. The way that the Star's spangled banner, our national anthem, was written because a man was trapped during a battle and all he could see if the flag...and in the morning, when darkness was gone, the flag was there. Then there is that infamous picture during WWII of those soldiers raising up the flag. Then again they did that on the Sept. 11 attacks. Consider the Supreme Court rulings on the flag burning issues and how this country itself struggled with our admiration for our flag and the rule that allows freedom of speech.
The American flag itself is full of history, aside from its representations. It has been the center of alot of controversy; it carries with it, its history and its representations.
I'm not terribly sure how illegal immigration figures into this debate. And to all those who are preturbed or upset by the fact that illegal immigrants get health and education... to be honest with you, that's one of the things I admire most about our country. Everyone talks about how capitalistic this country is blah blah blah, but how many nations in world will take the beaten, broken, even those who enter illegally and give them rights. I believe in playing by the rules, but in my heart it is the ultimate form of compassion to embrace the people who break the rules and try to not only help them but show them why they should follow the rules by giving examples. Of course, some people will just take advantage...but that's the cost of such lofty goals.
The American flag itself is full of history, aside from its representations. It has been the center of alot of controversy; it carries with it, its history and its representations.
I'm not terribly sure how illegal immigration figures into this debate. And to all those who are preturbed or upset by the fact that illegal immigrants get health and education... to be honest with you, that's one of the things I admire most about our country. Everyone talks about how capitalistic this country is blah blah blah, but how many nations in world will take the beaten, broken, even those who enter illegally and give them rights. I believe in playing by the rules, but in my heart it is the ultimate form of compassion to embrace the people who break the rules and try to not only help them but show them why they should follow the rules by giving examples. Of course, some people will just take advantage...but that's the cost of such lofty goals.