Fighting

mikev · Oct 9, 2003

Kirby said:

I don't know much about them at all true. But I DO know that IE is windows based and writen for. I also know Microsoft didn't re-code the system to work on a Mac. The only logical way for a mac to run a windows based program is with another bit of software to translate the code. If i'm so wrong how DO they run it then MR SMARTMOUTH. explain it to me and your comment will stand. fail to explain it and well, you'll know as much as me about macs.

Wadula · Oct 9, 2003

i am more a freind of this constellation

NEt --> PC running on Linux serving as firewall, anti virus and package filter --> Windows operated system.

Thatway you can keep windows clean of all that crap that kills the system after 3 monyhs. no stupid firewall, no anti virus, no anti popup, no nothing. the less you load on a windows computer, the less it takes to boot, shut down and work.
and additionally it is just the best way to protect ytou with an additional computer that does nothing else but protecting.

mrferg · Oct 9, 2003

Wadula said:

i am more a freind of this constellation

NEt --> PC running on Linux serving as firewall, anti virus and package filter --> Windows operated system.

Thatway you can keep windows clean of all that crap that kills the system after 3 monyhs. no stupid firewall, no anti virus, no anti popup, no nothing. the less you load on a windows computer, the less it takes to boot, shut down and work.
and additionally it is just the best way to protect ytou with an additional computer that does nothing else but protecting.

Wow that's a great idea, maybe I'll look into something like that......eventually.

junglestylz · Oct 9, 2003

Guessgirl, 21 male (if you could tell already), Las Vegas. As for the whole mac vs. pc deal. Apple makes some very good pieces of hardware. I would love to have a G4 but they don't run that well with Windows on them. Mac software sucks. All it is good for is digital imaging. They are just toys.

MrElussive · Oct 9, 2003

I have used both Windows and Macintosh all my life. Windows is far more superior to make, and I can list many different reasons why.

Kirby · Oct 9, 2003

mikev said:

Microsoft heavily uses C++ and a few other languages to develop their applications. The code is written in modules know as api libraries that do specific things, such as request a socket, parse html, create instances of objects, marshall requests, etc, etc. Thousands of api calls in Internet Explorer related libraries alone. Some of the library interfaces are made public, others are proprietary to Microsoft.

These api libraries are then compiled, and linked with other libraries that provide the interface to the target operating system, ultimately executing machine code specific to the processor in the system - 68xxx, PowerPC, 80xxx, Pentium X, Dragonball, etc.

C++ is a universal programming language. Applications such as IE for Windows, IE for Mac, IE for Pocket PC, etc. are compiled to a target platform. Tools such as this are commonly available like this one: www.metrowerks.com . This is why many applications run on multiple platforms, including ones that I have personally authored.

Your original statement is at best, wrong and at worst, propaganda to criticize Apple:
IE on your mac is running through a shelled application window making it slower than on a PC.

There is no shell to make it slower. You are somewhat correct in your second statement:
I also know Microsoft didn't re-code the system to work on a Mac.

They reused much of the api code, but certain parts were rewritten to deal with the User Interface differences between Windows and Macs.

There are a lot of things I don't know crap about. This is one I know more than a few things about.

As I have said in other posts: if you make a sound argument, I fully respect it even if I disagree. If you think Apple sucks, fine. But if you make an argument based on misinformation, I'll probably point it out.

andreyiv · Oct 9, 2003

HITMAN, what is wrong with you??? iPod became PC compatable almost right after it came out, if not when it came out. Where did you get that info?

Kirby, I'm not sure but wasn't Java created to be the first universal language? It was called oak or something similar and was created so home appliances could communicate with each other, then it became Java. I thought that C++ wasn't universal like Java, that's why schools have AP Java as computer science and not AP C++ starting this year. I am not sure about that but could you please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

vlad · Oct 9, 2003

bahnstormer said:

And Apple sued Microsoft because Apple is copying Windows?!? [confused]

I think you have that one backwards there bahn, Windows has been copying the Mac OS for years.

Kirby · Oct 9, 2003

mikev said:

Perhaps I have a smartmouth. But based on the general bashing tone of this thread and your comments, I don't think mine was out of line.

Kirby · Oct 9, 2003

andreyiv said:

Everything you have said about Java is essentially true in the past 10 years, give or take, but the biggest factor is the Internet and the target applications on the Internet.

C / C+ / C++ has been around since the late '60s and runs on virtually every platform imaginable. It's still generally the language of choice for an efficient, fast, robust, portable language.

Java was created much later than C. It is generally the language of choice for platform independent Web development, but I don't know of any heavy duty commercial applications (Word Processors, spreadsheets, browsers, databases, etc.) written in Java. That's what I was referring to in this thread with reference to IE - Microsoft codes their heavy duty apps in C++, and that provides the portability. A good example is Office for Mac. Some features were first released in Office Mac that then later showed up in Office 2003. This was a portable api that was not Windows specific.

The Oak (Java for embedded controllers) aspect of Java is really interesting. Time will tell if it really takes off. So far it hasn't gone all that far.

mrferg · Oct 9, 2003

vlad said:

Well then going by that train of thought, Apple stole from Xerox, you know the company that invented the GUI. The GUI was a logical evolution in computing, hell if Windows didn't us a GUI we'd still be using DOS.

Kirby · Oct 9, 2003

vlad said:

There was a saying in the '80s:
Xerox PARC invented it, Apple brought it to mass market, Microsoft copied it.

Examples: Graphical User Interface, Mouse, there are others I forget.

mrferg · Oct 9, 2003

Apple stole from Xerox, as did Microsoft. The only company that didn't steal was Xerox.

Wadula · Oct 9, 2003

and i bet they stole the basic idea from some poor technichian who wasn't smart enough to recognize what he got there... all bandits ...all bad bandits

Wadula · Oct 9, 2003

oh and i forgot, when microsoft stole here and there, how the heck can they dare to speak of coyrights then? [hihi]

MrElussive · Oct 9, 2003

Bill Gates bought DOS for $30K. Then he jacked Apple's code for the OS and made his own. In the end, it doesn't really matter. Every time I work on a Mac, I get so frustrated...I find Mac OS X to be very limiting in what you can do and WinXP is just so natural for me I can do things extremely quick.

mrferg · Oct 9, 2003

Gaaaa I hate Microsoft for that copyright sh*t!!! [mad]

I was going to reinstall XP on my laptop, but apparently my product key has been use too many times. I said screw it and installed 98. I still have XP on my main machine though.

MrElussive · Oct 9, 2003

Yeah, I hate it too, but it is something we have to deal with, so let me explain the license real quick so you guys understand it:
The product license allows you to install the software (Windows XP, for example) for 1 person. Microsoft gives you the benefit and assumes that everybody has one computer and one laptop. Therefore, you can install one copy of Windows XP on two different machines (but only twice), assuming one is a computer and one is a laptop (legally). Now let's say you have a computer and a laptop and your computer gets all messed up and you have to format your hard drive and re-install Windows XP and register the software again. Just call up the 800 number that registration provides and you can speak to somebody on the phone (available 24/7)...you just explain to them that you formatted your computer for whatever reason and you just want to re-register your copy of Windows XP. The person over the phone will gladly give you a new registration code.
Basically, my point is that the license is very annoying so Microsoft tries to make dealing with it as painless as possible, which I feel is a nice gesture, and WinXP is definitely worth it !! [:D]

For all the Mac users, I can respect it if you love your Macs, but the thing is, Macs really have no future. There were supposed to go out of business a few years ago, but Bill Gates decided to make some $$$ off of them by saving their ass. [?|]

ooo000HITMAN000ooo · Oct 9, 2003

I HAVE THE SAME PROB!!!

I cant reinstall xp on my vaio!! because i have used it to many times GRRR

Oh that reminds me i still need to regester my mac lol oops

Yall this thread was to see if we could stop fighting about this please STOP.

wileycoyote · Oct 9, 2003

I'll be thirty three this month.

All processors have a core instruction set. The job of a compiler is to write machine specific instructions from human readable psuedo code. The C family of languages are generally available with compilers for nearly every machine type (Intel x86, Motorola 8800, Sun, PowerPC, AS400, etc.). C family compilers are alse generally considered to write efficient machine code, although I have a buddy who thinks he can do better and constantly tweaks the assemble output. As such, many developers choose to write applications using C, but for foundation and abstraction class programs, assembly (or machine specific) languages are still used.

When debating Mac vs. Windows, its probably a good idea to keep hardware and OS arguments separate. From a purly technical aspect, Mac is superior to current Intel hardware in most respects. Mac OS has one big advantage over Windows in that Apple controls the hardware. Windows is somewhat at the mercy of Intel or other x86 compatible manufactures (i.e. RS6000). Windows is also cursed with the mission of maintaing backwards compatibility. Anyone who doubts the superiority of the hardware/OS marraige need only look at high end servers such as Sun, HP, and IBM. Compare those to the stablity of Win/tel servers.

As for IE, I'm not sure, but think it's based on a Mosaic browser by AT&T. In any case, it's a simple application and it's performance is largely goverened the TCP/IP stack and graphics engine. If you've read this far into this post, you can see I'm pretty bored here at work and will continue to blog on until someone interrupts me and I have to get back to work.

I've been using my IPOD as backup device for my laptop for years, don't know what the "PC support" comment was about.

Ultimately, MAC vs. Windows is similar to the Betamax vs. VHS, or firewire vs. USB, or Tokenring vs. Ethernet. Success is not determined by superior technology, but by popularity. Someone needs, me so my monologue ends here.

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