Got this in an email

[selavia]

I usually would not post something like this, but somehow I think it has value. It's interesting how the most common-sensical things go unnoticed in daily life; not that I agree with this entire message.

Cheers. Sean


Forward:

In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different:

This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said

"I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school .. the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves. Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.

Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us

 

[codex57]

Interesting.

 

[epj3]

Who says christianity IS the "right religion"? Stuff like this REALLY fires me up and makes me want to stop going to church all together, becuase most people who go take everything literally.

Why WOULDN'T I question what the bible says? The bible basically says "time" goes back about 6,000 years, yet there is IRREFUTABLE evidence of life on earth from millions and millions of years ago.

That's just ONE THING. The reason we need to keep separation from religion and government?? Well, look at the middle east!!!!!!!

 

[jrt67ss350]

Who says christianity IS the "right religion"? Stuff like this REALLY fires me up and makes me want to stop going to church all together, becuase most people who go take everything literally.

Why WOULDN'T I question what the bible says? The bible basically says "time" goes back about 6,000 years, yet there is IRREFUTABLE evidence of life on earth from millions and millions of years ago.

That's just ONE THING. The reason we need to keep separation from religion and government?? Well, look at the middle east!!!!!!!

I agree. These kinds of things get me really fired up, too. Personally, I think there is nothing more arrogant than for someone to say that whatever religion they believe in is the right one and if anyone disagrees with them, then they are flat out wrong and immoral and whatnot. Having basically grown up in the "bible belt" where this condescending view is rampant, I have gotten into it with numerous people who have tried to force their "superior" and infallible religion on me and tell me that what I believe is wrong. How can any human on this earth know any better than I? How can any human be so supremely confident in what they believe to have the ability to criticize me for my belief that there is no one "right" religion? That's just flat-out arrogance and disregard for others.

 

[epj3]

I agree. These kinds of things get me really fired up, too. Personally, I think there is nothing more arrogant than for someone to say that whatever religion they believe in is the right one and if anyone disagrees with them, then they are flat out wrong and immoral and whatnot. Having basically grown up in the "bible belt" where this condescending view is rampant, I have gotten into it with numerous people who have tried to force their "superior" and infallible religion on me and tell me that what I believe is wrong. How can any human on this earth know any better than I? How can any human be so supremely confident in what they believe to have the ability to criticize me for my belief that there is no one "right" religion? That's just flat-out arrogance and disregard for others.

Very well said, I couldn't agree more. I grew up going to church, I was very active in youth group, the music groups, etc. in a pretty conservative church until about 9th grade, when the logical side of me started to kick in.

I believe the only thing church is good for is teaching good morals, but there are people who take religion WAY to seriously. I don't believe you should base your entire LIFE around religion. I don't feel as if I'm here to serve god. If I were, why would I be wasting so much money on school?

And honestly, the part that stirs me the MOST, is the attitude that these super devout christians take, that they, becuase they go to church and serve god so much, have better morals and in turn are a better person than me (who hasn't stepped in the door since last christmas). It's sickening, and keeps me away from religion all together.

 

[mjbst111]

Who says christianity IS the "right religion"? Stuff like this REALLY fires me up and makes me want to stop going to church all together, becuase most people who go take everything literally.

Why WOULDN'T I question what the bible says? The bible basically says "time" goes back about 6,000 years, yet there is IRREFUTABLE evidence of life on earth from millions and millions of years ago.

That's just ONE THING. The reason we need to keep separation from religion and government?? Well, look at the middle east!!!!!!!

hmmm, what if religion is real, God made the earth in six days etc., but made the dirt 100 million years old. After all God can do anything right? He could probably make evidence that the dirt or whatever scientists test is 500 million years "old".

please don't get fired up about what i just said.... i'm just thinking aloud

 

[Abdoman]

I am Christian and I appreciate the post. I didn't see anywhere in that post that said one religion was better than the other. The only problem with the post is that people that have not read the Bible really don't understand it.

Thanks

 

[epj3]

hmmm, what if religion is real, God made the earth in six days etc., but made the dirt 100 million years old. After all God can do anything right? He could probably make evidence that the dirt or whatever scientists test is 500 million years "old".

please don't get fired up about what i just said.... i'm just thinking aloud

Yea what is religion is real, but the real religion isn't yours? See this is the closed mindedness that causes problems if it's implemented into government!!!!

 

[epj3]

I am Christian and I appreciate the post. I didn't see anywhere in that post that said one religion was better than the other. The only problem with the post is that people that have not read the Bible really don't understand it.

Thanks

I've read through a good portion of the bible in my lifetime. Not the entire thing, but the problem is the people who take everything literally.

If there's a god, then why do 12 year old girls get raped? You think god wants that?

 

[Abdoman]

Maybe you need to apply some thought to what you were reading and open your mind. It's hard for me not to put this in Christian terms, but I'll try:

God gave everyone free will - Jesus could have chosen not to do what he did (die for our sins). He gave us the Bible and gave us the choice to follow it or not to. It's your choice to read and live your life by it or not. If you choose, you could kill another tomorrow, but that would be your choice, not God's.

I never understood the logic of blaming something on God for what man/woman did.

 

[epj3]

Maybe you need to apply some thought to what you were reading and open your mind. It's hard for me not to put this in Christian terms, but I'll try:

God gave everyone free will - Jesus could have chosen not to do what he did (die for our sins). He gave us the Bible and gave us the choice to follow it or not to. It's your choice to read and live your life by it or not. If you choose, you could kill another tomorrow, but that would be your choice, not God's.

I never understood the logic of blaming something on God for what man/woman did.

Becuaes logically (again, logic + religion do not mix... EVER, except maybe the architect who designs the churches...), if YOUR god created us, then why didn't have have control? I'm not blaiming it on god, but doesn't it make sense? If god created us, why did he even create evil? He obviously had the control. If I invented something, and didn't want it to do a particular thing, I wouldn't MAKE it so it could do whatever I didn't WANT it to do. See what I'm saying?

What do you think about the Jewish religion? Muslims, buddhists, etc.? Do you think someone who is agnostic or atheist is going to hell, even if they are the most morally positive person? What if they give to the poor, help feed the hungry, and try to create peace?

Mahatma Gandhi wasn't a christian. Do you place his morals below that of a devout christian? Just because HE hasn't accepted jesus and the principles of christianity, does that mean he would've gone to hell if the antichrist had come to earth?

This will get on people's nerves... Jesus was a liberal

BTW You need the open mind. You're the one stating that christianity is RIGHT. I'm saying if a religion is "right", there's no way to know which one is. I think I'M the one being openminded here.

 

[indy_85stariones]

hmmm, what if religion is real, God made the earth in six days etc., but made the dirt 100 million years old. After all God can do anything right? He could probably make evidence that the dirt or whatever scientists test is 500 million years "old".

Reading Genesis we learn that Adam and Eve were created as adults, not babies. Therefore, they were created as they had aged -- let's say 25 years.

Earlier we learn that animals and birds were created as adult living things.

Why couldn't God create the earth as an adults -- let's say a few hundred million years old?

 

[Abdoman]

You're the one stating that christianity is RIGHT

I didn't say any religion was "right". The Bible clearly states not to judge - that's left for God. I know what's right for me. I didn' mean to offend you, but if you are being openminded, then you could accept that there is a god.

Look, I think we have had this "discussion" before and I am willling to do it again, but if you really want to, PM me and I will give you my phone number.

http://www.bmwboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8593&highlight=Christianity

 

[indy_85stariones]

if YOUR god created us, then why didn't have have control?

Later in Genisis we read, that God gave humans the ability to choose. Adam and Eve had the ability to choose. Eat from the tree in the garden and be seperated from God -- or be obedient to God and live in Paradise forever. Adam and Eve chose to be disobedient.

Just like Adam and Eve chose not to listen to God, today in a similar manner, people choose not to listen to God. God asks us not to steal, murder, and desire other man's wives. Yet, people continue to disobey and take things, kill people, and even rape 12y/o girls . God is the same today as he was during the time of Adam and Eve.

What do you think about the Jewish religion? Muslims,

Reading the Bible, a person realizes that Jews, Muslims, and Christians are much more tied together than they are taught. Reading the story of Abraham and Sarah, we learn that God promised them that the number of their decendants would as numerous as the sands along the sea. One of Abraham's sons went off to found the Muslim faith, the other the Jewish faith.

This will get on people's nerves... Jesus was a liberal

Yes, Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" shows that Jesus was a non-conformist. Let me think for a second. Yes, I can go as far to say -- it pains me to say this -- Jesus was a liberal.

 

[aNoodle]

This email reminds of the kind of thinking that lead to the Taliban government in Afgahnastan.

 

[epj3]

This email reminds of the kind of thinking that lead to the Taliban government in Afgahnastan.

I am SO glad more than one other person probably thinks on the same lines as I do.

The thing is - we have absolute evidence that life goes back more than 6,000 years. We have ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE of evolution. Bacteria that is resistant to antibodies is a form of evolution. It's not like that bacteria gets a LITTLE bit of penicillin (another bacteria) in it, and then becomes immune like us. Bacteria EVOLVED to become resistant to certain antibodies.

Anyone wander why they say if there is bacteria and water on mars, that it probably sustained life at one point?

 

[jrt67ss350]

Bacteria that is resistant to antibodies is a form of evolution. It's not like that bacteria gets a LITTLE bit of penicillin (another bacteria) in it, and then becomes immune like us. Bacteria EVOLVED to become resistant to certain antibodies.

Your point is valid in that antibiotic resistance is a form of bacterial evolution, but penicillin isn't a bacteria. It's a chemical that interferes with a particular enzyme that some bacteria use to create their cell walls. As a result, the bacteria can't produce their cell walls and die. It's more or less a human-induced bacterial evolution. They don't really become resistant to antibodies (antibodies are what the infected organism produces to help fight the infection). Just felt that I had to correct that.

Reading the Bible, a person realizes that Jews, Muslims, and Christians are much more tied together than they are taught. Reading the story of Abraham and Sarah, we learn that God promised them that the number of their decendants would as numerous as the sands along the sea. One of Abraham's sons went off to found the Muslim faith, the other the Jewish faith.

I didn't say any religion was "right". The Bible clearly states not to judge - that's left for God. I know what's right for me.

I agree 100% with the above two quotes. But, so many "devout" Christians, especially in my area of the country, don't see it that way. Many of the people I have met down here will be quick to tell you that Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists, etc are all wrong and aren't "saved." So, in essence, they preach that they will be going to hell since they don't believe in the "one true faith" that they believe in. Hell, alot of people in my hometown in SC (the home of Bob Jones University ) feel that Catholics fall into this category of non-believers and are doomed to fire and brimstone. It's very hypocritical and closed-minded, and it infuriates me.

 

[epj3]

Your point is valid in that antibiotic resistance is a form of bacterial evolution, but penicillin isn't a bacteria. It's a chemical that interferes with a particular enzyme that some bacteria use to create their cell walls. As a result, the bacteria can't produce their cell walls and die. It's more or less a human-induced bacterial evolution. They don't really become resistant to antibodies (antibodies are what the infected organism produces to help fight the infection). Just felt that I had to correct that.


I agree 100% with the above two quotes. But, so many "devout" Christians, especially in my area of the country, don't see it that way. Many of the people I have met down here will be quick to tell you that Jews and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists, etc are all wrong and aren't "saved." So, in essence, they preach that they will be going to hell since they don't believe in the "one true faith" that they believe in. Hell, alot of people in my hometown in SC (the home of Bob Jones University ) feel that Catholics fall into this category of non-believers and are doomed to fire and brimstone. It's very hypocritical and closed-minded, and it infuriates me.

Isn't penicillin - the antibody - produced by bacteria? That's what I ment

 

[jrt67ss350]

Isn't penicillin - the antibody - produced by bacteria? That's what I ment

This is very , but penicillin is a chemical (known as a beta-lactam) that was originally discovered to be produced by a type of fungus/mold. It isn't an antibody. Antibodies are an adaptive immune system product produced only by higher organisms. Antibodies are just a single component of the very complex and mutlicellular immune system found in higher organisms. Bacteria don't produce antibodies, but they produce chemicals and enzymes that have adaptive and immune-like function (like the enzyme that confers penicillin resistance).

Here's a pretty good webpage that talks about penicillin and its history if you are interested (it also has the chemical structure of penicillin and some other synthetic penicillin derivatives): http://helios.bto.ed.ac.uk/bto/microbes/penicill.htm


Now, back to the religion discussion!!!

 

[epj3]

This is very , but penicillin is a chemical (known as a beta-lactam) that was originally discovered to be produced by a type of fungus/mold. It isn't an antibody. Antibodies are an adaptive immune system product produced only by higher organisms. Antibodies are just a single component of the very complex and mutlicellular immune system found in higher organisms. Bacteria don't produce antibodies, but they produce chemicals and enzymes that have adaptive and immune-like function (like the enzyme that confers penicillin resistance).

Here's a pretty good webpage that talks about penicillin and its history if you are interested (it also has the chemical structure of penicillin and some other synthetic penicillin derivatives): http://helios.bto.ed.ac.uk/bto/microbes/penicill.htm


Now, back to the religion discussion!!!

heheh thanks