Got this in an email
- Thread starter selavia
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People should start following what is in the Bible first and not worrying so much about pushing their ideas. Is it not true, according to the Bible, that we have a fairly specific roadmap for how we should live?
Being from the Catholic school system, I think I remember something about tolerance, respect, not speaking bad of others, and living ONE'S OWN LIFE according to certain standards. I think in my life I have met about 2 people that live in this manner.
The true measure could be nothing less than how we act, not how we say we act.
Being from the Catholic school system, I think I remember something about tolerance, respect, not speaking bad of others, and living ONE'S OWN LIFE according to certain standards. I think in my life I have met about 2 people that live in this manner.
The true measure could be nothing less than how we act, not how we say we act.
I have a relative that is atheist and without question is one of the most respectful and kindest people on the planet. She goes to great lengths to be pleasant and extend courtesy to everyone.
I also have relatives that say they are religious, and I hate to say this, but they are extremely uptight, nasty, money-hungry, brutal people. I hate to say this but it's the absolute truth. My aunt is a fifthly rich lady and she is so nasty to people that it makes me sick. She fires her help in such a way that would turn your stomach.
[EDIT] Forgot my point. It would seem reasonable that my second example should resemble the actions of the atheist in the first example if someone is a true Christian?
I say when you've helped all the people that need help and the 550,000 children living in "the system" have homes, then worry about the damn monuments in schools and the courts. Until then, there is much to be done by people that are true Christians. That is, if their motives are pure Christian motives????![[scratch]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_headscratch.gif "Head Scratch [scratch]")
I also have relatives that say they are religious, and I hate to say this, but they are extremely uptight, nasty, money-hungry, brutal people. I hate to say this but it's the absolute truth. My aunt is a fifthly rich lady and she is so nasty to people that it makes me sick. She fires her help in such a way that would turn your stomach.
[EDIT] Forgot my point. It would seem reasonable that my second example should resemble the actions of the atheist in the first example if someone is a true Christian?
I say when you've helped all the people that need help and the 550,000 children living in "the system" have homes, then worry about the damn monuments in schools and the courts. Until then, there is much to be done by people that are true Christians. That is, if their motives are pure Christian motives????
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I agree that it's unfortunate and annoying that some people take such a literal, fundametalist viewpoint of the Bible. It's especially frustrating that they will "preach" a particular fundamentalist viewpoint, but if you challenge them with another contradictory verse (i.e. "Thou shall not kill" vs. "An eye for an eye..", etc.) they can somehow rationalize just about anything to reinforce their beliefs.
It's important to remember that the Bible, the Koran, etc. are books of stories and lessons intended to illustrate how to live morally, as Bryan mentions. It's my opinion that those who either take these books totally literally, i.e. fundamentalists, or those who dismiss the value of these works, i.e. atheists, are totally clueless and unfortunately ignorant.
It's important to remember that the Bible, the Koran, etc. are books of stories and lessons intended to illustrate how to live morally, as Bryan mentions. It's my opinion that those who either take these books totally literally, i.e. fundamentalists, or those who dismiss the value of these works, i.e. atheists, are totally clueless and unfortunately ignorant.
![[thumb]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_thumb.gif "Thumbs Up [thumb]"){kind=icon}
I totally agree. Except I don't know about atheists being clueless. I think agnostics and athiests would agree with you about these teachings being good stories, and perhaps simply moral fables. (No doubt they'd quibble with Mary getting impregnated all alone, people walking on water, an arc being built for all the worlds animals, etc.).
What I don't get is this drive to "return" religion to government. Our founding fathers were persecuted in their home countries for practicing religions in opposition to the established state religions. They came up with a very simple idea for us...seperation of church and state. It's lasted now for over 200 years through great depressions, world wars, all sorts of changes. I'm all for the state sanctioning my religion and being packed with people of my church. But what if it's not my religion, but someone elses, not my particular denomination or television evangelist. Then what!?! The rhetoric of the email above seeks to undo what many consider one of the most brilliant decisions of our founding fathers....and for what? Power.
Now what does the bible say about the wolf in sheeps clothing?
What I don't get is this drive to "return" religion to government. Our founding fathers were persecuted in their home countries for practicing religions in opposition to the established state religions. They came up with a very simple idea for us...seperation of church and state. It's lasted now for over 200 years through great depressions, world wars, all sorts of changes. I'm all for the state sanctioning my religion and being packed with people of my church. But what if it's not my religion, but someone elses, not my particular denomination or television evangelist. Then what!?! The rhetoric of the email above seeks to undo what many consider one of the most brilliant decisions of our founding fathers....and for what? Power.
Now what does the bible say about the wolf in sheeps clothing?
![[poke]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_poke.gif "Poke [poke]"){kind=icon}
LOL.
I don't know what's to fear....though the email sounds a lot like we should be very scared.
The first Republican president was a deist at most and an admirer of Thomas Paine, but arugably a well known atheist in private. "The world will little note nor long remember what we say here..." Ah, but we do! Lincoln of course was a good man and a great president.
Theodore Roosevelt was dutch reformed but not very religious. There are a number of presidents who's religious views were doubtful. Since when was wearing your religion on your sleeve a litmus test to good leadership?!? Or is this really all about power?
I don't know what's to fear....though the email sounds a lot like we should be very scared.
The first Republican president was a deist at most and an admirer of Thomas Paine, but arugably a well known atheist in private. "The world will little note nor long remember what we say here..." Ah, but we do! Lincoln of course was a good man and a great president.
Theodore Roosevelt was dutch reformed but not very religious. There are a number of presidents who's religious views were doubtful. Since when was wearing your religion on your sleeve a litmus test to good leadership?!? Or is this really all about power?
It is interesting that NO ONE has come out and actually said that "THERE IS NO GOD OR SUPREME TYPE BEING" in this whooolllle discusssion. So do I take this to mean that we believe that someone or something created this world we live in but that the religious implications of it are in question? BTW I lean toward epj3's views on that whole matter(maybe not as "extreme" about it but I do believe in "something" but I question the validity of many aspects of the christian religion and the hypocrisy of the most fanatical members. I speak first hand being raised in a christian home with Sunday morning and evening service, wednesday bible study, friday youth group and even choir practice on saturday nights....not mention "revivals, seminars, and special conventions....been there and done it......daily morning devotions...prayer in the spirit....the list could go on and on and on......but to this day I cannot believe that the buddhist or tibetan monk that spends his entire life in service to others and whose value set is higher than most christians is going to the bottomless pit....or anywhere else for that matter.....and thats the bottom line....cause adrean8j said so!!!! LOL
Bryan330i said:
I have a relative that is atheist and without question is one of the most respectful and kindest people on the planet. She goes to great lengths to be pleasant and extend courtesy to everyone.
I also have relatives that say they are religious, and I hate to say this, but they are extremely uptight, nasty, money-hungry, brutal people. I hate to say this but it's the absolute truth. My aunt is a fifthly rich lady and she is so nasty to people that it makes me sick. She fires her help in such a way that would turn your stomach.
[EDIT] Forgot my point. It would seem reasonable that my second example should resemble the actions of the atheist in the first example if someone is a true Christian?
I say when you've helped all the people that need help and the 550,000 children living in "the system" have homes, then worry about the damn monuments in schools and the courts. Until then, there is much to be done by people that are true Christians. That is, if their motives are pure Christian motives????
I also have relatives that say they are religious, and I hate to say this, but they are extremely uptight, nasty, money-hungry, brutal people. I hate to say this but it's the absolute truth. My aunt is a fifthly rich lady and she is so nasty to people that it makes me sick. She fires her help in such a way that would turn your stomach.
[EDIT] Forgot my point. It would seem reasonable that my second example should resemble the actions of the atheist in the first example if someone is a true Christian?
I say when you've helped all the people that need help and the 550,000 children living in "the system" have homes, then worry about the damn monuments in schools and the courts. Until then, there is much to be done by people that are true Christians. That is, if their motives are pure Christian motives????
All political parties different than us will go to Hell,
All demoninations different than us will go to Hell (especially Roman Catholics)
All people who make more money than us will go to Hell
All people who don't go on at least one missionary trip will go to Hell
and list goes on and on...
A person has to be "in denial" if they don't see the leadership crisis in the Christian community today. Living in a world without such leaders as Billy Graham and George Whitefield, we have to examine everying all by ourselves.
Looking at the balance of nature, everything works perfectly...
The sun rises in the east and sets in the west
Plants need carbon dioxicide and produce oxygen
Animals need oxygen and produce carbon dioxicide
How can we say this was all assembled by a series of random events?
Looking at God's creation, everything is beautiful...
Leaves on the trees turn colors in the Fall
Fresh snowfall in the Winter
Flowers blooming in the Spring
Now that we have acknowledged that God is real and we want him to be real in our lives... we read our Bibles regularly, something like once or twice a week.
Some of us may wish to use their Catholic Bible. I think that it is too difficult to read, because it is basically identically to the King James Version (kind of like reading Shakespeare). I use the New International Version, the New Revised Standard Version, and the New American Standard Version.
From there, many of us learn that we aren't decendants of Abraham, so becoming Jewish or Muslim isn't really an option for us. However, reading in the New Testament (especially Romans), we learn that God sent Jesus for the Gentiles (people who aren't decendants of Abraham) -- Christianity fits us perfectly.
Church history reveals that the Roman Catholic church was, in fact the first Christian church. Both Peter and Paul spent the remaining days of their lives in Rome. Things were going well until Cesar Nero had both of them put to death for their refusal to worship Cesar and the Roman Empire.
The Bible is real and it is just as relevant today as when it was written years ago. To gain a perspective from other Christians, I enjoy reading books written by the "old school" Christian authors. People like Warren Wiersbe, C.S. Lewis, and J. R. R. Tolkien. Those of us being raised Catholic, I think that you would enjoy reading Owen Barfield.
I expect Epj3 to disagree with everything that I've written in this post. For folks whose beliefs are closer to Epj3 (than those of us who are disappointed in our respective demoninations) I ran into a good book a few years ago written by Lee Strobel...
The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus
Wouldn't most Catholics disagree with your priest?
Isn't the Apostles Creed recited in every Mass?
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified; died, and was buried. He descended into Hell; the third day He arose again from the dead; He ascended into Heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
Without Christ who descended into Hell, rose again from the dead, and ascended into Heaven, how would the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting, become possible?
Isn't the Apostles Creed recited in every Mass?
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified; died, and was buried. He descended into Hell; the third day He arose again from the dead; He ascended into Heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
Without Christ who descended into Hell, rose again from the dead, and ascended into Heaven, how would the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting, become possible?
In his defence I dont believe he was saying that he disagrees with EVERYTHING you have written......I dont even disagree.....I say to each their own but we still question the "why's and how's" of our Christian religions......for example can anyone on this entire board give me an explanation of how ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN created out entire race without in-breeding? Did Eve mate with Cain or Abel? Did Cain and Abel mate with their sisters??? Or the part in the bible where women lay with the "fallen angels" to create giants? Give me a logical, clear and concise answer and I will question no further...............