Lotus Elise

[PuShAkOv]

[kick]

 

[Bryan330i]

A performance motorcycle has 130 - 200 hp with a weight of 400 - 600 lbs. By your logic, all motorcycle riders should need pilot's licenses.

Not to start something else, but I think I know what push is saying. As any motorcycle rider knows, control is compromised at higher speed as a result of less weight. It is possible to lose control at higher speeds purely because of a slight difference in grade in a roadway. I takes only a very slight “bump” to cause one or the other tires to lose contact with the road long enough to cause significant problems. I think that he is thinking of this type of loss of contact that may compromise handling.

 

[ResidentSlacker]

Isn't the Lotus company based on light cars with lower horsepower? I remember reading somewhere that most of their cars are really really lightweight and have lower horsepower but make it up in speed and handling.....

 

[PuShAkOv]

yes slacker.

 

[Kirby]

Not to start something else, but I think I know what push is saying. As any motorcycle rider knows, control is compromised at higher speed as a result of less weight. It is possible to lose control at higher speeds purely because of a slight difference in grade in a roadway. I takes only a very slight “bump” to cause one or the other tires to lose contact with the road long enough to cause significant problems. I think that he is thinking of this type of loss of contact that may compromise handling.

That's not what I've experienced in over 25 years of riding motorcycles. I know that I would rather ride a 275 lb. dirt bike in the 'whoopty doos' on an MX track, not a 600 lb. Harley.

Wadula has the right idea and the math behind it.

 

[ILuvBMW]

But on a moto-cross course, don't you want to get air?

 

[Bryan330i]

So why are all cars not designed to be 1700 pounds? Because in general it does not work that’s why (Not to say that that it will not with the Elise). It has been studied for years and been the subject of numerous litigation cases, I will look for some next week and you can look them up and read them. Meanwhile, there was testimony before congress last year on the whole idea of lighter cars, the IIHS was key and there is tons, and I mean tons of math there. It should be easy to find, it’s not like this is a new subject just thought up on this board, there is a huge amount of research on this subject.

And I am not knocking anyone by my motorcycle statement but it is pure and simple introductory physics. STREET bikes are very susceptible to lift from road imperfections at high speed that causes tires to lose contact with the road. I cant help it, the motorcycle comment just got me.

This is from a review on the Elise.
Always bear in mind that a corner may have unexpected surface conditions or adverse cambers which will take the car from a point well within it's performance envelope to one well outside in a split second. If this happens the rear-end may 'step out' and catching it requires the driver to be very alert and familiar with the cars behaviour under these conditions. The first time I found myself in this situation, I over-corrected. The Elise is not forgiving in this situation, the rear end will snap back quickly often resulting in the driver losing the rear end in the other direction and spinning out of control. For me this proved an expensive learning exercise only, on another day it could have proved fatal.

 

[///M SPEED]

yes slacker.

What? Your the one saying it needs "Quote":

The car is a joke. The most HP the car has is 156; however it has the looks of a 100K+ car. It has engine in the rear, and everything is set-up for a min. of a V10 engine.. only not!
It will just screw the whole look/perfrmance system. Ricers would be buying them... putting aftermarket exhausts and you wouldn't know if its a ferrari or a elise.

and:

Why noy put in a 350HP supercharged engine into it? It would be awesome to see this thing go from 0-60 under 3 seconds.

Now your saying "yes" to a statement about lightweight and lower horsepower? Man, your contradicting yourself. Make up your mind. After this thread you will probably be the one going out stating all the facts pointed out in this thread about the Elise to everyone who will listen. If you’re going to make a statement stick with it or admit your wrong, but don't start making statements like you knew it all along.

 

[ooo000HITMAN000ooo]

But on a moto-cross course, don't you want to get air?

lol last time i checked you did

LOL i just read you sig.

 

[Abdoman]

So why are all cars not designed to be 1700 pounds? Because in general it does not work that’s why (Not to say that that it will not with the Elise). It has been studied for years and been the subject of numerous litigation cases, I will look for some next week and you can look them up and read them. Meanwhile, there was testimony before congress last year on the whole idea of lighter cars, the IIHS was key and there is tons, and I mean tons of math there. It should be easy to find, it’s not like this is a new subject just thought up on this board, there is a huge amount of research on this subject.

1700 lb cars don't work because of the 6000 lb cars on the road and poor drivers I would not want to be on the receiving end if I was in the Lotus and someone hit me driving an SUV. The only reason that vehicles loose the ability to handle a high speeds is because of air lift. If a extremely light weight vehicle is correctly designed, including Venturi tubes and the right spoiler, the car can and will stick to the ground like glue.

Can big bumps can send the car into the air, yes, but since F=ma (or just look at the trusty work equation above)

F=Force
m=mass
a=acceleration

the lotus will have less mass and therefore hit a bump with less force than a heavier vehicle. But using that logic, it will take less force to lift the car. In comes correct dampening.

 

[///M SPEED]

So why are all cars not designed to be 1700 pounds? Because in general it does not work that’s why (Not to say that that it will not with the Elise). It has been studied for years and been the subject of numerous litigation cases, I will look for some next week and you can look them up and read them. Meanwhile, there was testimony before congress last year on the whole idea of lighter cars, the IIHS was key and there is tons, and I mean tons of math there. It should be easy to find, it’s not like this is a new subject just thought up on this board, there is a huge amount of research on this subject.

And I am not knocking anyone by my motorcycle statement but it is pure and simple introductory physics. STREET bikes are very susceptible to lift from road imperfections at high speed that causes tires to lose contact with the road. I cant help it, the motorcycle comment just got me.

This is from a review on the Elise.
Always bear in mind that a corner may have unexpected surface conditions or adverse cambers which will take the car from a point well within it's performance envelope to one well outside in a split second. If this happens the rear-end may 'step out' and catching it requires the driver to be very alert and familiar with the cars behaviour under these conditions. The first time I found myself in this situation, I over-corrected. The Elise is not forgiving in this situation, the rear end will snap back quickly often resulting in the driver losing the rear end in the other direction and spinning out of control. For me this proved an expensive learning exercise only, on another day it could have proved fatal.

Maybe true, but you're talking about a two-wheel vehicle compared to a four-wheel vehicle. This could be said about all cars on the road today. Public streets were not designed for the high speeds were talking about here. It's all relative. You go out with your 3300lb car or 1700lb car and max it out on any road and you're taking chances. You should always drive, at the high speeds we're talking about here, on roads you should know inside and out. If not, you're the idiot (not directed at particular person) taking very high risks with the chance of the car/motorcycle leaving the road due to "road imperfections". Whether the car is lightweight or not does not matter. Most sane drivers will be taking the car to the track (x-crossing, etc) to get the most out of it. All the statements trying to get through here are that a car does not have to have mass HP to be fast.

I have ridden a bike for many many years. I have come across many off cambered roads at high speeds (you want to talk about scary), but I was traveling down a road I could usually take my sports car on at the same rate of speed without the same effect (at least to the severity of the bike) and it differs with each road. Even if you know the road, you should always approach it differently than the way you drive the same road in a car.

 

[///M SPEED]

1700 lb cars don't work because of the 6000 lb cars on the road and poor drivers I would not want to be on the receiving end if I was in the Lotus and someone hit me driving an SUV. The only reason that vehicles loose the ability to handle a high speeds is because of air lift. If a extremely light weight vehicle is correctly designed, including Venturi tubes and the right spoiler, the car can and will stick to the ground like glue.

Can big bumps can send the car into the air, yes, but since F=ma (or just look at the trusty work equation above)

F=Force
m=mass
a=acceleration

the lotus will have less mass and therefore hit a bump with less force than a heavier vehicle. But using that logic, it will take less force to lift the car. In comes correct dampening.

Exactly. That,s when cars really do need wings on the rear and groud effects. Why do you thing F1 cars can hit the high spees they do and still corner like mad.

 

[Bear6360]

From what I understand, the Elise is going to cost around $95K. Perhaps I misread or misunderstood my Road & Track and will need to reread it, but I'm pretty sure that's what it said. Also, it said 1600 lbs.

As for hitman's comment, I don't think any rice boys are gonna shell out $95K for a car to F up.

As for the rest of the discussion, comparing a motorcycle to a car is apples and oranges....regardless of weight. There's a lot to be said about four wheels versus two. It's a go nowhere argument. They physics are too different.

IMO, the Elise is going to be an awesome car (hopefully the American version will be as awesome as the European). I doubt many of us will get to drive one nonetheless own one. If my MSRP above is wrong, then maybe we'll all get to try it out. I sure hope so!!

 

[///M SPEED]

As for the rest of the discussion, comparing a motorcycle to a car is apples and oranges....regardless of weight. There's a lot to be said about four wheels versus two. It's a go nowhere argument. They physics are too different.

Exactly what I was stating. It is a nowhere argument.

 

[brahtw8]

From what I understand, the Elise is going to cost around $95K.

**

If my MSRP above is wrong, then maybe we'll all get to try it out. I sure hope so!!

Autoweek says $40k (estimated). I think R&T is wrong. They would be a hard sell at $95k.

 

[Bear6360]

Like I said, I may have misread/misunderstood/misremembered (I made up that last word) the MSRP in the magazine. Perhaps I was looking at a different model too.

 

[PuShAkOv]

1700 lb cars don't work because of the 6000 lb cars on the road and poor drivers I would not want to be on the receiving end if I was in the Lotus and someone hit me driving an SUV. The only reason that vehicles loose the ability to handle a high speeds is because of air lift. If a extremely light weight vehicle is correctly designed, including Venturi tubes and the right spoiler, the car can and will stick to the ground like glue.

Can big bumps can send the car into the air, yes, but since F=ma (or just look at the trusty work equation above)

F=Force
m=mass
a=acceleration

the lotus will have less mass and therefore hit a bump with less force than a heavier vehicle. But using that logic, it will take less force to lift the car. In comes correct dampening.

Trust me, there will be enough force made by a 1700lb object going 65 mph... plus the fact that the suspension will probably be rock-hard + shorter rubber, larger rims adding to the punch the car gives to the road. Those heavy cars you are reffering too have enough tire to gently touch the road... but not this babe.

 

[ooo000HITMAN000ooo]

After looking at the pics some more i dont think rice will buy them because they tend to like old hondas and stuff like that.

 

[Kirby]

But on a moto-cross course, don't you want to get air?

No. Ask any MX rider. They WANT to keep the tire on the ground as much as possible. Think about it - if the tire is not in contact with the ground YOU ARE LOSING SPEED - by wind resistance, and by vertical motion. The goal on an MX track is to go FORWARD not UP. Someone who takes too much air at the wrong time can actually be passed by a guy going slower on the ground! You don't win races by going up.

The only reason MX riders take air is a trade off. Is it faster to jump 3 bumps in the air, or stay on the ground at a lower speed? They will choose the method that takes them forward the fastest.

 

[Kirby]

A performance motorcycle has 130 - 200 hp with a weight of 400 - 600 lbs. By your logic, all motorcycle riders should need pilot's licenses.

Note the SMILIE at the end of my post? That post was meant as a JOKE, not a comparison between cars and bikes. I totally agree that comparing handling of cars and bikes is apples and oranges. But the physics and principles of suspension weight and tuning are still the same.

I think we all are agreeing on the same thing - Lighter weight does not mean that a vehicle is more dangerous or will handle poorly compared to a heavy vehicle.