The Rapid return of Nuclear Power

[ooo000HITMAN000ooo]

no no you should READ up on it search google for the 750hl

I have done a 6 page paper on the older 750hl, Its really interesting because it still has all the power still can run on hydrogen and only produces water and if the tank is ruptured the gas just evaporates instantly. Making it safer than a normal car. I will look for my paper on it i had all the specs 0to60 times and all that.

 

[Wadula]

as he said, the evaporation is only safe when there is no fire around or any sort af spark. in that case the liquid hydrogen becomes a nice lil bomb.

 

[Kirby]

I think that long term hydrogen is our best alternative fuel. I don't think we should be afraid, just respect it!!!

 

[Wadula]

and with the right equipment it is really no problem. the safety of the tank is given but with the compromise of loosing space in the trunk. they will figure something out, as usual.

 

[mikev]

no no you should READ up on it search google for the 750hl

I have done a 6 page paper on the older 750hl, Its really interesting because it still has all the power still can run on hydrogen and only produces water and if the tank is ruptured the gas just evaporates instantly. Making it safer than a normal car. I will look for my paper on it i had all the specs 0to60 times and all that.

hydrogen on its own will not burn at all. it needs to have oxygen mixed with it. ever do the test at school where you put a lit splint into a cylinder of hydrogen and air??? it makes a loud pop and flames come out. the fuel cell in the car would be at least 1,000,000 times the concentration. I agree if the tank ruptures it is quite safe as long as there are no naked flames. (But so is Petrol) if however there was a flame there (even a cigarette butt) the force of the explosion in the presurised container would cause a three foot crater in the ground. i agree that the flame would have o be there when the fuel escaped, and that there is no lignering fumes to ignite as with petrol. But im not happy even with LPG strapped in my boot let alone a huge tank of hydrogen.

 

[junglestylz]

2H + O -> H2O

Fuel + Oxidizer -> By Product

Abdoman is correct. So far, no one has figured out how to efficiently combust water....

I said that H2O was the product. So actually I would appear to be right on that point. As far as a car running on water, it could be done considering the car actually ran off of the energy being created by the fission of the extremely strong Hydrogen bonds.

 

[Abdoman]

well technically thats not entirely true, steam engines and neuclear reactors use heated water to generate the power. and you could break down water molecules to give hydrogen and oxygen in the engine. just wouldn't particularly want to crash one

Actually that's not true. Steam engines and nuclear reactors use coal and uranium to generate power. Water is used to transfer power - you must somehow superheat the water for this to work properly.

Believe me I know - I had to take Vapor Power twice!!

Junglestylz - you said:

A group out of BYU actually developed an engine that would run efficiently off of water, but Exxon bought out the patent rights.

So, that is why I was asking about the water. I still don't understand what you mean that the engine runs on water. Fission is to break apart molecules. Since it takes a large amount of energy to break these bonds apart, it consumes energy. So has BYU created a way to break apart these molecules with less energy than they get from burning the Hydrogen? I don't remember the process as being highly exothermic.

 

[junglestylz]

They actually created an engine that would use the thermal energy of conditional fission to breaks apart the othe molecules. As the engine would seperate the first couple million molecule, the energy was used from the reaction to break apart the rest of the water molecules yielding Hydrogen and Oxygen that can then be used to fuel the car. A typical "wtaer car would use it own energy to split the bonds. I believe that it was right around six joules¿ This uses a mass amount of the energy that the engine produces. Their engine actually use the fission of the water, to split the other water molecules creating hydrogen and oxygen. This prevented a loss of energy and the wtaer was actually splitting itself as long as water was being fed to it. I can't find the article but I have it in a magazine at home. I thought that the secondary purpose of water in a standard nuclear reactor was to act as a coolant.

 

[Wadula]

it is a coolant and the medium that carrys over the energy. the heat superheats the water to steam which is then lead on a turbine. the steam has to return to the reactor be heated up again. this requires to cool down the steam which is done in heat exchangers filled with water mostly taken out of a local river. you have three water circles that are all closed to do that procedure.

 

[junglestylz]

So it basically acts eaxctly the opposite of a giant, powerful, absorbtion chiller. What are the transfer rate for each individual step¿ There must be some seriously high pressure in a system like that. What would the steam run at¿ My guess would be about 600 degrees.

 

[Wadula]

i don't know about a nuclear plant. coal fired and HRSG plants run at temperatures of more than 600 degrees celsius. i am currently looking for some info in the net as all my literature is in germany. i'll be back with some interesting stuff

 

[junglestylz]

600 degrees celsius for the water¿

 

[Wadula]

for the steam. water at 600 degrees celsius is not existing

 

[junglestylz]

I know. 600 degree celsius steam would have to be under like 14,000 PSI!!!!

 

[Abdoman]

at 600°F the pressure would be about 1550 psia - (ASME Saturated Steam table)

Junglestylz - if you can remember the magazine and month I would like to read that article. sounds very interesting.

 

[Kirby]

There are 2 classes of commercial nuclear reactors - GE Boiling Water Reactors and Westinghouse Pressurized Water Reactors. The difference is apparent in the name. I don't know much about the Westinghouse PWR, but I spent 5 years as an EE on a GE BWR construction project for Philadelphia Electric. That was a while ago, I've forgotten a lot of the detailed specs.

A BWR runs at 550 - 600 F and around 800 - 1000 psi. Wadula is right on about the heat exchange loops. Contrary to what many people believe, radioactive water never leaves the reactor/turbine complex. The cooling towers are not full of radioactive water. And the water in the cooling towers is not all that hot. Depending on design, it enters at only 110 - 130 F and is cooled to 80 - 90 F, as I recall.

 

[Wadula]

there is a material called T91 acc. to ASTM A 213. That grade is used in areas where the service temperature is about 1500 degrees F / 735 degrees celsius. for the pressure, an intermediate HRSG plant of median age operates at about 85 bar / 1232 PSI.

 

[Kirby]

Boiling Nuclear Reactors don't reach sealed vessel steam pressures. There are a series of dryers and then high and low pressure turbine sections, all of which have the net result of reducing maximum pressure. Different story for a PWR, but I don't know the details. I think the PWR is a closed loop (makes sense) and would certainly reach higher pressures.

 

[Wadula]

sorry but what is PWR and what is BWR? those words are not known to me.

 

[Wadula]

This is the layout of today's state of the art power plants

A combined cycle power station using a HRSG (heat recovery steam generator.

and the same thing a little more detaild to see where what circle goes